DJ Marc B - June Playlist
Last Updated June 24th, 2009 by Marc B
YA Salsa Latin Jazz Mix
My favorite two types of salsa are classic salsa and latin jazz. This playlist will highlight the latter. Jazzy salsa tunes seem to be pretty polarizing and you either love them or hate them, but even if you don't enjoy dancing to this type of music hopefully you will enjoy listening to it. If you like these tracks be sure to also check out Bobby Paunetto, Monguito Santamaria, Machito, Tito Rodriguez, and Noro Morales.
YA Salsa Latin Jazz Mix
Thanks for this
What features are characteristic of latin jazz, Marc?
Further...
What are the differences between classic salsa and latin jazz?
Great Question!!
Quick Response...Great question, but very difficult to answer. I'll answer based on my limited experience and research, and hopefully other more knowledgeable people will chime into the discussion. Latin Jazz combines rhythms from African and Latin American countries, often played on instruments such as the conga, timbale, guiro, and claves with jazz and classical harmonies played on typical jazz instruments (piano, double bass, etc.). The two main kinds of latin jazz are Afro-Cuban jazz and Brazilian jazz. Categorizing the above playlist as latin jazz is somewhat of a misnomer. The best way to describe the tracks above, in my opinion, is jazzy salsa. The best an easiest distinction to make between latin jazz and salsa is to describe jazz and latin inspired non-danceable tracks as latin jazz, and jazz and latin inspired danceable tracks as salsa. Since many in the metro-area would consider many of the above songs non-danceable (based on my experience in talking with dozens of dancers/dj's, and instructors locally), I labled the playlist latin jazz. Salsa and danceable latin jazz are basically the same thing. The two terms in reality are very broad and there is much overlap between them.
One of the best ways to explain is with examples:
Latin Jazz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNpP1L46U0c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrTuzJXxTB4&feature=related
Jazzy Salsa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpIFe1LAxhQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xAtN1bSpwk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxPelk-UCJE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utqzw3vdJuQ
Classic Salsa/Salsa Romantica/Salsa Dura
Another Quick Answer....Classic salsa is most often used to describe any salsa music that sounds like the salsa generally being produced in the 1960's and 70's by New York and Puerto Rican bands (El Gran Combo, Tito Puente, etc.). This is not to say that bands with other backgrounds or from other locations do not play songs that can be categorized as classic salsa and the word classic doesn't neccessarily mean old. The rhythm structure is based on either the 2/3 or 3/2 son clave. The ‘Motown’ of salsa was the Fania record label. Formed in the late 1960s by Jerry Masucci and Johnny Pacheco, the label signed many of the great salsa artists of the time including Celia Cruz, Willie Colon, Ruben Blades, Hector Lavoe and Tito Puente. During these years (60's and 70's), Fania almost completely monopolized the commercial marketplace; as they became larger and more successful, they gobbled up most other smaller salsa labels. Over time, almost every significant salsa artist became a Fania artist. Lately I've begun to develop a pretty nice collection of music from the the few independent artist of that time who weren't part of Fania.
Classic salsa is most easily distinguished from salsa romantica. By the mid-1980’s, Fania and classic salsa lost popularity, giving way to a softer and more commercial style called salsa romantica. Salsa romantica took out musical improvisation (the focus is on singers and not the band, most musical solo's are gone), softened the punch of the orchestra (softening and weakening rhythms) and focused primarily on ballads set to a slowed down salsa rhythm; social commentary was replaced by love songs. The most famous early salsa romantica artists included Eddie Santiago, Frankie Ruiz, Lalo Rodriguez and Luis Enrique. Some of today’s most famous salsa artists of the style include Gilberto Santa Rosa, Marc Anthony, La India and Tito Nieves.
Salsa dura means 'hard' salsa. This term is used to describe salsa that retains the basic characteristics of classic salsa: driving rhythms, call and response, 'montuno' sections and socially conscious lyrics. While Puerto Rico was focusing on salsa romantica, Colombia developed their own style of salsa dura. As a result, Colombia can boast some of the finest, mature salsa dura bands in the world: Grupo Niche, Sonora Carruseles, Joe Arroyo and Fruko y sus Tesos. Salseros in New York have also been turning to salsa dura. The Spanish Harlem Orchestra has perfected the big band salsa sound of the Fania years while Jimmy Bosch, Wayne Gorbea and La Excelencia are becoming instrumental in the rise and popularity of salsa dura around the world.
Below is an online radio station that plays alot of classic salsa and salsa dura (Hard salsa radio):
http://www.hardsalsa.com/index.html
I'd love to talk to you about this more in person, so feel free to ask me about music if you see me out dancing. I'm pretty discouraged at the moment with what I consider to be a lack of interest in the music and history....I would love to put together a workshop and listening/dance party with some of the other local dj's/instructors/historians to discuss dancing from a musical perspective (the history of the dance, different types of clave, musicality, band arrangements, types of dance, types of music, etc.), but only if there was a demand for it...
I'll be Dj'ing at Adonis in Dearborn this Friday for anyone who wants to hear classic salsa!!
No cover before 10:30pm
Good!
" ... I would love to put together a workshop and listening/dance party with some of the other local dj's/instructors/historians to discuss dancing from a musical perspective (the history of the dance, different types of clave, musicality, band arrangements, types of dance, types of music, etc.) ..."
That's a great idea. I am looking forward to it!
I thought everyone is drawn to this dance because of the music. But based on your comment, I guess I am wrong.
i like the idea.
i like the idea of having a listening /dance party , i think that's great. i would like to contribute with my experience as a dj and as a salsa music collector. i think if dj s ,salsa dancers and music collectors get together we all can bring something to the table and make this a very informational and fun event , that way people will apreciate more the salsa movement and the roots of salsa ,so if anyone plans to organize an event like that i am down.
DJ ISAAC.
Music preference - chicken or egg?
I can only speak from my perspective and the perspective of people who have been in the scene a lot longer than I, and who's opinion I respect. I personally wasn't drawn to the dance because of the music...I was drawn to the dance because of the dance and the people...something new, different, active, social, etc... About 6 months into dancing my favorite song was "Thinking of you" by Lenny Kravitz. Not being a native spanish speaker or growing up with the culture, my music taste initially was completely shaped by the music my instructor played during our lessons and our socials. So the question I pose to you is: Is musical taste and preference the chicken or the egg? Do instructors, and the radio, and dj's dictate what music dancers enjoy (prevalence)? Or do dancers control and influence the music played by the radio, instructors, and dj's (preference)? The music didn't draw me to this dance, but its definitely one of the major things keeping me a part of it.
As a DJ, my 2 cents
I think in a city like New York or Chicago where there is a salsa music on the radio music preference is dictated by what people hear on the radio. Here in Michigan people's music tastes is more or less dictated by what they hear at the clubs or what they hear at socials or as in your case what you hear at the dance studio you take lessons. For instance people that take lessons with Duane are more familiar with Cuban Salsa and Timba than are those that take lessons elsewhere. One of the things that we all have to keep in mind is that within Salsa there are many styles, tastes and flavors.
Sabor
P.S: I think a musicality workshop/listening party is a great idea too. Let me know
Variety is the spice of life
Salsa is a great social mixer and it allows people who in other contexts might never really meet or interact to have a connection if just for a few minutes. I think most people in our scene are like me and had never really heard of it until later in life - so our tastes in salsa are somewhat different and less "set" than music that we grew up with or have listened to for many years. Not only are we more familiar with the music with which we are trained whom ever is our instructor, we are also equipped to follow that style and not necessarily other styles. Thus when presented with one style while our dance training is for another - its uncomfortable.
For instance, if the music is timba and you have only taken lessons for NY On2 - you probably won't like timba that much... the style of dancing you have learned just isn't a good match for the music. Some of it is certainly personality and some things sound better to some people than to others, but I really think that understanding of different musical styles and the foundation dances that accompany them are key to enjoying them and being able to communicate to other dancers through them.
In Cuban salsa there are often interludes of root styles such as rumba and son which most dancers are not are able to recognize and adapt to if they have not studied Afro-Cuban styles as well as casino - thus they just kind of keep going until the music changes to something more familiar. With the classic salsa / salsa dura, the NY On2 or Puerto Rican On2 styles are generally the best suited - for some thats all they know so thats all they want to hear. The latin-jazz leaning salsa works best for dancers who can shine extensively, play with timing and follow the soloing instruments - but for others it will probably be a bit hard to follow or even boring because the clave is rarely played, the percussion is decidedly different and there are often a lot of tempo changes.
For those few who grew up with salsa, they probably are hooked into a particular style (just like I have preference for "classic rock" over say "techno".) For the rest of us , if one's training is in one style and the DJ/band tends to plays another style you probably will think the DJ/band sucks. That's crazy - there is great salsa music in every niche but you have to learn multiple styles to truly appreciate it. That said, I hope that the dancers will get out there and learn to adapt.
Good topic!
Geo-
Timba Sucks
When I first got into dancing salsa I really could not tell the difference between the different styles. All I knew is that there were some songs that I liked and some that that I couldn't wait to be over. Make no mistake, if it was a salsa song, i danced to it regardless of style. But some songs I just connected with a lot more. It was not till much later that I could start telling the difference between the different styles and what the names were. The more I classes I took, the more music I collected, the more I realized that I hated the stuff classified as Timba. The irony is that most of the salsa classes I took when I was first learning were with Duane at Energetic Soul.
timba is awesome
LOL, I love timba ---- why??? because it makes u wonna dance. but Timba is a word that doesn't really mean much unless u know exactly what that means. Here is a little excerpt taken from wikipedia about timba:
--------------------------------
As opposed to salsa, the roots of which are with the Cuban conjunto bands of the 1940s and 1950s, modified with rock, jazz, and traditional music of Puerto Rico, Timba represents a synthesis of a wider variety of popular and folkloric sources. Timba bands draw heavily from international influences such as jazz, rock, disco, funk and hip hop, as well as local folklore like rumba, guaguancó, batá drumming and the sacred songs of santeria[1]. In addition to timbales, timba drummers make use of the North American drum-set, further distinguishing the sound from that of mainland salsa. The use of synthesised keyboard is also common. Timba songs tend to sound more innovative, experimental and frequently more virtuosic than salsa pieces; horn parts are usually fast, at times even bebop influenced, and stretch to the extreme ranges of all instruments. Bass and percussion patterns are similarly unconventional.
--------------------------------------
As you can see Timba is just the latest music coming out of cuba, fuxed with a lot of different kinds of flavors in it. And because it has so much to offer, it requires you to being able to move your body, just doing salsa steps to timba music is very difficult. On the other side, I also enjoy other non-timba salsa; its great, to me its a little bit easier to dance to sometimes when i am really tired, because the music doesnt ask for much from me, however, when i want to go wild and crazy and really move my body and just have the most amazing time, I prefer timba, but specifically: Los Van Van : my favorite songs , are Agua, Ven Ven Ven, and Permisso Que Llego Van Van,
here is a little video by Los Van Van - Agua: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DviErId9G_k
here is another one by Manolito: La Habana Me Llama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r2SRLojlbE
If you PAY ATTENTION to the Los Van Van video, see how many different instruments they have going there, and which kind. I mean they have flutes, violins, horns, many many percussionists. Look at the drum set --- its a rock star trap set with a set of timbales. I mean regular salsa music doesnt have that many instruments, and never a trap set --- only timbales. Argg I LOVE IT!!!!
Musicality/Listening Party - Great Idea
I love this idea. The music evokes emotions that can really enhance your movement and your experience. So, to understand it better would probably make me a better dancer. I think it would also deepen some people's appreciation of the art form to understand the history of the music, the iconic players, and to understand where the style is headed. -Lesly
i like it
i like your selection, looks like you are one of the few salsa dura and latin jazz lovers here in michigan, but one thing , number 8 descarga la moderna to me it is not latin jazz , it is a descarga, in english is jam session, the name say 's it all but is just not the name , i know that's a descarga. keep up the good work.
Correct
I agree, if I had to label it either Descarga OR Jazzy Salsa, Descarga would be more descriptive and accurate. But could it be both? I avoided discussing descargas, timba, cha-cha vs. son montuno, salsa gorda, etc. for sake of simplicity. Hopefully that can be added to the workshop.
Wow, thanks again for all
Wow, thanks again for all the info.
I wouldn't mind people going into detail about the music. I am ready to be schooled....;)
As someone else said, tastes are soooo different. In my scene, salsa dura is rarely played. Very rarely. The DJs cater to the crowd who wants to hear merengue, bachata, and dear god help me disco-ish salsa.
I Agree With Marc B!
Marc, I think that's an absolutely fabulous idea -- to have a musicality class, describing the different styles and rhythms and history, etc etc etc of this music that we love so much! And cha-cha-cha, of course!! Count me in! (on "2", of course! lol)
Classic case of the BLIND leading the BLIND!
Wow, reading this shows me how much needs to be done here in Michigan. As i travel the WORLD not teaching, EDUCATING the masses about the where salsa comes from and why it is what it is today. In my own city we have the uneducated teaching the uneducated. If ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNY body wants to sit an have an adult conversation about what i do, dUANE WRENN of Energetic soul (313.590.9909) please call me. I will sit you, your momma, daddy, cousins and uncles down and explain to you all, if you are going to dance this music it does not matter what style you dance, because it comes from one root. this is educated music. You cannot do what you want on the dance floor without knowing what the music is asking. I have committed my life to this and I AM THE BEST AT WHAT I DO.
Anybody who spends less then one year with me will never reach this higher height.
It is the ignorant that keep me in business, so i guess i have to thank them for that. What is read off the internet i recommend should not be your only source of information.
THIS IS A CLASSIC CASE OF THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND.
So whoever is interested in learning more about what this beautiful culture that has provided us all with a powerful music out of their misery grab your books, your internet and come see me, i will be waiting for you all but this education will cost you.
Who wants some food for their soul?
duane Wrenn.
Wow Indeed...
Duane would you mind explaining who's blind and what comments you're specifically addressing?
Here are a couple of quotes from my comments..."I'll answer based on my LIMITED EXPERIENCE AND RESEARCH, and hopefully other more knowledgeable people will chime into the discussion.";"The best way to describe the tracks above, IN MY OPINION...";"I would love to put together a workshop and listening/dance party with some of the other local dj's/instructors/historians to discuss dancing from a musical perspective (the history of the dance, different types of clave, musicality, band arrangements, types of dance, types of music, etc.)" I don't know if I could have made it any clearer, that I am not, nor claim to be any sort of higher authority on salsa or its roots or history. My attempt to ORGANIZE (not instruct) a workshop, was based purely on trying to assist in giving back, not an attempt to seek a profit or recognition or anything of the sort.
Regarding MY specific definitions of the terms latin jazz, classic salsa, romantic salsa, and salsa dura...I would love if you were to offer an alternative definition for those terms if you think i was completely off base. I personally think its all semantics, and many of these terms mean many different things to many different people. I would never presume to HAVE the right answer...or that there is only ONE right answer...or that there is only a LIMITED AMOUNT OF PEOPLE who have this elusive "right answer". If you think you are the one, then please, at least give all of us a taste of the knowledge you can bestow upon us. I find all of this ironic, because just recently I was talking to one of your instructors about having you participate in the proposed workshop.
Regarding your comments..."if you are going to dance this music it does not matter what style you dance, because it comes from one root" - People aren't allowed to have preferences? There aren't commonalities between certain genres within salsa? Your students don't have a preference for a certain style of salsa music? "It is the ignorant that keep me in business, so i guess i have to thank them for that." - Thank who for what exactly? Don't your students keep you in business?
I would love to learn more about this culture and its history, but not at the expense of being labled ignorant and blind. So while I have expressed interest to your students and instructors about taking classes at Energetic Soul, I will not take you up on your offer to educate me.
Marc B
Classic case of the =know it all / i am god guy!!!
wow , reading this shows me how much you need to learn about being humble, something you probably don't know nothing about, now "the uneducated teaching the uneducated" come on ihave no doubt that you know your stuff but the best at what you do ?,I DON'T THINK SO, may be localy but what that proofs? by readind your comment the only thing that you proof is how arrogant and ignorant you are, you know that there is always someone better than you out there that will sit you,your momma , daddy, cousings, uncles and all your family tree down to educate you all about stuff that you probably don't even know.
WHO the hell is going to be interested in learning with you if you just call everyone ignorant and they keep you in bussines , i will call ignorant to whoever that even think about taking lessons from your not main stream dance called timba, yeah yeah we know that salsa roots are form cuba and africa and europe and spain and senegal and bla bla bla bla tell me something i don't know and have some respect for other peoples opinions, i hope that after this little coment of yours those student of yours ( or should i call them " ignorants") will keep you in bussines, good luck.
Well Said Marc B.
The idea of having a workshop is great. The people that take up the task of learning salsa or learning about the music can not be labeled as ignorant. Some learn faster some slower. Humility is a great trait of a leader (on and off the dance floor). Duane would have been better off without this message. I was considering taking classes at his studio, but I would certainly not want to be just another ignorant.
re to ignorant
ok, it seems that this is a classic case of people with high egos. u know, me being from a diffirent country, i had to look up what ignorant means, so here's the definition;
Ignorant: Unknowledgeable or uneducated; characterized by ignorance; Ill-mannered, crude
So, yes, people that are Unknowledgable are obviously ignorant. If you don't want to be ignorant, just get the education. So I really don;t see what all this problem with him saying it.
People also like to assume, what do you mean by saying that he'll be better off without this message? LOL,
By personally working with duane for a while, side by side, I can definitely say that: he IS a great teacher, he is a great leader - leading from the front, and he is definitely THE BEST IN MICHIGAN when it comes to dancing and ESPECIALLY teaching. If you wonna learn how to DANCE --- not just learn salsa steps --- but to dance, and more your body --- Energetic Soul is the place to go to. If you get upset by a little comment without understanding where its coming from or what lead from --- then i guess ur desire to be a good dancer was not as strong - which is cool.
also, once you understand that you are ignorant - or uneducated - and get on your path of education then with time you will not be ignorant -- how simple of a concept that is.
P.S. Look at duane's mentors --- lol, they are world renounced instructors, choreographers and dancers. etc.. etc.. who've lived the art of rumba, son, danzon, orisha dancing, etc.. etc...
Beyond the defenition Ignorant
The problem is that the word "ignorant" in English does not only have the definition and connotation of "uneducated." You forgot to address the "ill-mannered; crude" part of the definition that you posted which is where the negative connotations come from.
(Connotation: 1. An idea or meaning suggested by or associated with a word or thing; 2. The set of associations implied by a word in addition to its literal meaning.)
The word "ignorant" brings a whole host of other synonyms to mind including stupid, low-brow, unwilling to learn and that is what people are taking offense to.
To Rgolshteyn
I am one of the “anonymous” that expressed disappointment after reading Duane’s reply. My post is titled “Well Said Marc B.” and I have no problem with explaining further my perspective on what I read and wrote. Writing under “anonymous” is just for convenience and not for hiding my identity. Like you, I am also a foreigner and but unlike you I did not need to go to the dictionary to find a meaning for the word that surprised and offended some of us. We are on the dance scene and participate in classes and music discussions because we are not ignorant. Our attitudes show willingness to uncover and enjoy more of what dance and music have to offer. Ignorance is unwillingness to learn.
I cannot deny that Duane looks great on the dance floor and I have a lot of admiration for his dedication and skill. Just so you know, you are not the only one that says he is the best of the region (but I do not agree because I have a bit of a different taste and preference). Until today, I saw him as a great educator and seriously thought of taking classes from him even though the style he teaches is a bit too Cuban. My perception was that he is very approachable, fun and talented. Now, I can still recognize talent but I am a bit disappointed by his posting and that is why I said that he would have been better off without it. My short note did not come from being offended; it just came as a expression of surprise (as I was looking up to Duane). If he meant something else, and me, the other anonyms, Marc B, etc. misunderstood him, a short clarification might place us back on the right track. We might be just lost in translation.
Make whatever you want out of my explanation. It was fun writing it.
Just Another Anonymous
wow, indeed INDEED
Any kind of music, art, etc. generally evokes a visceral reaction in people. Without being 'educated' about the history of salsa or any other kind of music, people will instantly like or dislike a song. There is no 'learning' to like a song. As 'Timba sucks' intimated, these 'uneducated' people may eventually discover that all of the songs they instantly liked/disliked happen to fall under a certain categorical style of music, for example 'salsa dura' or 'cuban salsa/timba'.
With that being said, I would like to address Mr. Wrenn's unabashedly egotistical and antagonistic comment to what had previously been for the most part a civilized discussion. Just who is it, really, that is blind?? It seems to me that Mr. Wrenn is the blind one, unable to see past his own overblown ego. Regardless of your opinion - and yes it is only your opinion, in no way is what you think better than what anyone else thinks - I would have thought that a business owner such as yourself would express himself a little bit more diplomatically and in a more professional manner.
Besides this, I find great humor in some of your comments. You said 'you cannot do what you want on the dance floor without knowing what the music is asking'. Why, then, do YOU and ALL of your students dance cuban salsa to EVERY song that is played - even when the music is clearly not timba and much too fast for that style of dancing? I'm not a fan of cuban salsa or the style of music - I much prefer salsa dura and NYon2, but I can appreciate a good cuban salsa dancer when I see one... Melissa (short blond girl) for example is exciting to watch. You claim 'I am the best at what I do' but honestly and in my own very humble opinion, many of your students (who are easy to pick out, by the way, because they all dance cuban salsa regardless of song) dance YOUR style MUCH BETTER than YOU!
Based on the multitude of positive comments above, it appears that there is a good number of people who would love to learn about and have proactive discussions about the history of salsa music and dancing and in no way does anyone claim to be an expert (with the obvious exception of Mr. Wrenn). I can only speak for myself but I would be surprised if any of the above commenters will bring 'their mommas, daddies, cousins and uncles' down to Energetic Soul so that Mr. Wrenn can explain to them all what 'educated music is', especially because 'this education will cost us'.
Calling your students and potential students 'ignorant', 'blind', and 'uneducated' just seems like poor advertising to me.
So... "who wants some food for their soul?" I don't know about the rest of you guys, but sorry Duane, you just made me lose my appetite.
question!
I have a question. what is it that you mean by cuban salsa? and what do you mean when you say NY on 2????
answer!
rgolshteyn: i thought you were taking lessons for 6 months from energetic soul? cuban salsa is what you are taught at energetic soul... lol!
cuban salsa:
heavily rumba influenced, there is an extra 'tap' step called the guapea. the patterns are mostly circular and there are not too many spins. best danced to slow to mid-tempo songs with heavy timba influence.
NYon2:
heavily mambo influenced, danced to the tumbao of the conga drum. the breaks are on the 2 beat of the measure (hence on2). dancers dance in a straight line called a slot and there are many spins and shines. best danced to mid to up-tempo songs, especially salsa dura which has heavy percussion.
INTERESTING SIDE NOTE:
the world salsa championships feature on1 and on2 dancing only - the pure forms of salsa! there is no cuban style in the competition. therefore it seems that cuban salsa is a cousin of salsa-salsa (on1 and on2).
funny :))))
Mr. Anonymous :-) your opinions are very interesting as far as what Ny on 2 is , however, not entirely correct. and as far as Cuban salsa goes, its entirely not correct. I mean you have successfully managed to describe one or two things about the music, but linking tap step to guapea is just plain wrong. :-))
Also, your side note is fundamentally incorrect - you are referring to Dance as a sport when you are referring to championships :-))))) where cuban salsa is not a sport, but simply a street dance :-) Also when you say cuban salsa, you know you are referring to salsa in general right? you probably meant to say casino... which is a specific style of salsa, just like ny, etc.. etc.. :-)))
I am curious; in your opinion, what's the difference b/w on1 an on2? And where did it come from? I mean, whats the point i suppose???? :-)))) Also, where does Son come in? What about Rumba?
P.S. Heres a little video of some casino dancing for ya. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAQ-zcci4Vg
I dont see how you mean that there are not that many turns or shines.
Looking forward to your reply Mr. Anonymous, :-P
P.S.S. oh and by the way, there are Casino championships and what not. :-P
http://www.yasalsa.com/node/730
Re to "ignorant people" ouch ...
Posted July 20th, 2009 by nicola
I am just another "anonymus" that is getting into the rumba party ...
Here it is: I remember the first time i've seen salsa in Bolognia - Italy with people spinning and executing fancy moves with what I call now the 'performing way' ... I was impressed with all that shiny patterns and I start learning as much I could in classes and DVD's. I still remember how no matter how hard I tried learning all this moves, spins and techniques there was a voice inside me that kept saying 'something doesn't feel right'. more I tried to master this advanced dips and spins the voice become louder saying ' this isn't who you are'.
By 1999 I moved to Canada and by 2005 I joined the Detroit salsa scene. Guys - I love you
By 2005 I went for my first time in Cuba and ... saw the first cuban couple dancing ... the look on their faces, and how directly I compared them with the look of most dancers faces who are into other styles ... I asked myself then why there was such a difference? The cuban couple didn't dance even 2 or 3 moves the whole dance and the joy I saw lived so powerfully for me, much more than I seen in any other salsa shows, performances, 'you tube' big shots ... you name it ...
Because of that I went back to Cuba five more times and dived into their culture to came to know a very important fact ... the answer is very simple: in Cuba they live, understand, feel and appreciate the music to a different extend. I become aware of the concepts behind the moves ...
Do you want to see the real picture? Here is "the white boy" that got into the life change after dancing the cuban way. I kept my way of life, my european and american mix of values, but I had to learn a new dimension ... I found out the roots of cuban style salsa ... trace back to the religion of Santeria and the intrinsic movement of Yoruba tribes ... I start moving different, start to dive into " the ocen Rumba, testing the magic of Son, living the love story of Danzon until reach the divine touch of Orishas - without noticing, without Duane's expensive education or Marc's fancy terms.
I have seen people lifes change after dancing the cuban way but I also seen people lifes change after the LA's or NY's way ...
KEEP DANCING THIS MUSIC, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT STYLE YOU DANCE.
Duane, you dog with overblown ego, keep teaching your classes, you are a great instructor, the syllabus of cuban casino is on your side ... And we don't care about the multitude of negative comments, our mamma, daddy, cousing and all family tree are fine, they don't need your approval to build this gorgeous country ... They don't dance salsa, but they make great engineers, teachers, doctors, artists ... you name it ... salsa for me ... is just a bonus ...
Marc, go get some of duane classes, learn to feel salsa ... you have a great attitude and the willing to learn ... Combine your Ann Arbor LA on 1 style with Orishas syllabus and " go get some food for your soul" Isn't cheap but we all pay for quality ...
And in the end ... Here is the surprise of the night: Two weeks ago had a blast at Laura's studio in Ann Arbor ... She had everybody into rueda casino ... The LA on 1 style was not enough, the fancy moves, spins and techniques just didn't do it anymore ...
Laura got into teaching the feeling of Rumba, the love story of son and danzon ... We love and respect you for all of that hard work, You are just gorgeus.
Humble pie to everybody
Anonymus rich Gabriel
Don't get it twisted
I would like to begin this by saying that this is the first time that I have responded to anything on this site. I will not hide behind an anonymous signature and I welcome discussion, one on one or otherwise. I have definite opinions on many of the subjects discussed in the past and certainly the present, but have chosen to keep my opinions to myself. Well, the time has come for me to bare my energetic soul (so to speak.) I have been a student of duane wrenn's for a little over two years. I had always loved latin music ( yes I am using that very general term). My father would play latin music in our house every Sunday when I was a young girl. I have been dancing for many years and have always been drawn to the dances which come from that music. Learning salsa was just going to be another chapter in my dance career. Little did I know that when I stepped foot in Energetic Soul Studios, that I would be experiencing a life changing event. What impressed me most about Mr Wrenn, is that he is above all, a TRUE STUDENT of dance. His vision encompasses all aspects of dance from the history, to the development and technique, and lastly to the music which holds it all together and he has dedicated his life to learning and never stop learning. He has expanded his repetoire by immersing himself in ballet, modern, West African as well as the study of rumba and the orishas. By being this most illustrious student, he has evolved into the most consummate teacher and educator. He has come up with a curriculum of movement and steps which is a foolproof way of learning. This alone demands respect as this is definitely a work in progress over many years, ever evolving as he finds new and efficient ways in teaching the uninformed, impatient and yes, sometimes ignorant student. Anyone walking into his studio will become a well rounded, well informed, and adaptable dancer. Dancers from his studio know WHY they are doing WHAT they are doing and not just someone's choreographed moves. The amount of time spent on learning, unlearning, changing and applying these movements, which came way before he did on this earth, is unheard of. His three master teachers hold him in such high esteem, it pains me that YOU IN THE SALSA COMMUNITY cannot see what a jewel we have here in Detroit. These three masters have known no student of theirs to be more dedicated than he, to the pursuit of knowledge. Outside of Detroit, duane is revered. duane's passion lies in cuban movement, but in that, he wants his dancers to go anywhere in the world and be able to hold their own on the dancefloor. I do not go out very often but I find it amusing that I do not get asked to dance from persons not involved with duane. We at the studio do not believe we are better than anyone else nor do we turn away from anyone who wants to dance anything other than casino. I love the freedom that casino holds for me, but again this is just my opinion. All this talk about timba, very few places in the metro Detroit area plays it, so what the hell do you have to complain about? I love all types of salsa music, but timba, man, timba moves me unlike anything else.
What strikes me as funny, is that there is such a backlash concerning duane, methinks that jealousy has indeed reared its ugly head. In knowing Mr. Wrenn for the time that I have, his dream is to have people approach dancing as well as anything else in their life with an open mind, a loving heart and the will to learn. Thank you for allowing me to speak to all of you and here's hoping that you will challenge yourselves to come see what we at Energetic Soul Studios love so much.
Good Luck and don't forget to BASE Valerie Karageozian'
Whatever...
This is what I am talking about. Duane comes to this site, posts offensive comments completely unprovoked, and neither he or his instructors are apologetic about it in any way. Instead they fire more insults by calling the offended jealous.
please clarify
please clarify how you personally got offended?????
also, how do u mean unprovoked???????
p.s. if the shoe fits, wear it! :-)
Wow...
I think no more need be said...
bla bla bla
WHoever put this last statement is hiding behind the "anonymous" name; why don't you come out and identify yourself because what you are talking about is completely ridiculous. You have high ego, and take things personally. Obviously you are the type of person that will dance salsa to any kind of music, even techno probably, lol, just cause you don't really care or want to understand where its from; which is cool. you are that kind of a dancer; but some of us want to have that education, and do spend our time accordingly researching certain things. if its not interesting to you where the music came from; why are you even reading this topic? its a musicality topic!!!!! I am a student at the energetic soul; and been dancing since november. and i feel pretty confident in my skills on the dance floor and knowledge and education of the music... and thats all in LESS THAN A YEAR!!!!
but in any case, i'd like to know whomever posted that topic;
also, i can definitely see where duane is coming from; and the reason why is because even with my limited knowledge about the dance; it is FUNNY to see how some people are so ignorant and thus blind is leading the blind... duane is correct.
i just want to specify; lol, Dj Marc B none of these comments towards you.
rgolshteyn, your comments speak volumes
rgolshteyn, your comments speak volumes to the kind of "education" and attitudes one can expect to find at energetic soul.
:-)
thank you for that comment! :-) it means a lot to me; and it definitely tells me something about you as well
whom am I speaking with by the way?
It's called sarcasm dude...
It's called sarcasm dude...
Humble Pie?
"I will sit you, your momma, daddy, cousins and uncles down and explain to you all...
...I AM THE BEST AT WHAT I DO... It is the ignorant that keep me in business...
Who wants some food for their soul?"
-duane Wrenn.
(http://www.yasalsa.com/node/716#comment-2890)
wow.
how about some humble pie for that ego...
>^^<
Wow!
I've read most if not all of the comments posted on this particular blog...some more than once. It still surprises me how people have taken the universal language of love (music and dance) and made it such an ugly thing. I definitely appreciated some comments more than others, like one anonymous just simply replied that perhaps some comments made by Duane would have been better not written...it's an opinion. One in which I can appreciate just because of the way the blog was written. Some other comments on the other hand...are less than appealing. And with me also being a student of Duane's, as offensive as some feel the comment Duane made was. Anonymous who thinks Timba sucks....I hope that you are not one of the people I typically chose to dance with. Not because your "preference" is not Timba but you used such strong words "HATE" to describe your preference. Hate is such an ugly word and doesn't allow for acceptance. I for one LOVE all forms of salsa! My preference is the salsa that people feel down to their souls. The one that makes them get up and dance no matter what their level of dance is. A good song is a good song; timba, latin/classic salsa, son, etc. Can we not just appreciate the beauty of a good/great dancer no matter what their style is?
Good post Marc B. At the very least people are getting, researching and looking for answers.
Be a better example...
Conversations about preferences in style and music (like this) one are not new and not infrequent. But what made this one unique was watching a teacher and leader of our salsa community completely fly off the handle. I read it over and over again and still could not believe what I was reading. Not only were they insulting and wildly egotistical but also a complete contradiction to encouraging nature of his views on dance and the community in general. It was all so shocking! Sadly, I will never look at him the same way again.
Enough
You want to know what's really sad, Anonymous #1? With your help, we've gone from a simple conversation to character assasination. First let me say that this is NOT an attack against you or anyone else who has taken part in this blog, We all have various opinions... on music, dance styles, and even people. But let me be crystal clear... what is intolerable is the disrespect and propaganda you have spread about an individual you don't even know.
You point to a comment that was made and the fact that you read it over and over, but each time you obviously walked away with a greater misunderstanding, my friend. He did not ask for his name to be mentioned in an earlier posting yet subsequently he was mutilated for coming to his own defense.
If you dance on one, great... on 2, perfect... on 3....good job... contra tiempo... bravo! OR... how about dancing on 2 while leading your partner to dance on 1 like duane has demonstrated in his musicality workshops? The moral of the story is... just dance. I can't tell you the number of leaders that I've danced with at the club who don't dance on ANYTHING?! LOL They just do moves, spins, shines, abrupt stops back into spins, and we laugh and fumble our way through it and have a grand ol' time! Whether you like Timba or Simba... (joke) it's all good. Enjoy it.
In conclusion, duane IS the best at what he does, and likewise there are others who are the best at what THEY do. It's called confidence, not ego. Everyone has a product or service out there, many in the same genre, but the key is to believe that you have a niche and that people need what YOU have to offer. If you provide a service and you don't believe that you are the best, why are you in business?
And going forward, for anyone who is contemplating their view of him, or feel that they've made up their mind and are ascribing to a viewpoint per this blog and the comments that were made, I would challenge you to think again. If one comment can cause a misunderstanding and separation within the community, then we weren't much of a community to begin with. We need to seek to understand and build up and not to tear down.
I don't know who anonymous
I don't know who anonymous #1 is as there are many anom commenters here, but I just carefully checked all the posts and Duane's name was NEVER mentioned nor was Energetic Soul until Duane himself posted his distasteful remarks, so I'm unclear on what you think he was defending himself from. The conversation, aside from whoever wrote the 'Timba Sucks' post (which, although Duane teaches timba/cuban style salsa was still not directed towards him or energetic soul!) and rgolshteyn's response, was quite positive with people asking questions about music and enthusiastically supporting a musicality workshop.
Things only turned really ugly until Duane posted. I can't believe his 'buddies' are so loyally defending his comments. Don't you see that he insulted you too? You're the "ignorants" he thanks who are paying for his place, his car, his starbucks... There is no sugar-coating his words...
However, I'm having a hard time believing that it was really him who wrote that. I don't know the guy at all but as a teacher myself (not dance, at a college) I can't imagine berating my students and future potential students in that manner. And I'm not trying to run a business and garner more paying students. Yes maybe he has confidence in his abilities but there is a more delicate way of saying things that would not insult and alienate people so much. Yes maybe he does look down on us all at Sangria from his perfect dancing-god pedestal and laugh at all the foolish ignorant peons who have zero rythym... but one of the golden rules is "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all' and I think both his reputation and his bank account would do well to remember that.
actually..
.. duane's name was mentioned in the "Timba Sucks" post. Now I personally would have a hard time explaining the difference between timba and punk rock, but I certainly have grown to love the salsa scene, including all the music, the variety of connections that are possible, and I am grateful for all of it, including the variety of teachers in this area..
It surprised me that someone felt led to post such a harsh comment in the "Timba Sucks" post (in which both duane and Energetic Soul were indeed mentioned)... and we all should notice that nobody here took that poster to task.. While i was surprised to read duane's reply (and I also wondered if it was really him), I do think I can understand the flash of anger leading to it.
--Marvin
actually
Actually in the Timba Sucks message, the person specifically pointed duane out.... The person could've just said that they dont like certain type of music, period, but no, they said they hate timba, and specifically singling duane out, after which its understandable that duane came to his defense.
Also, ask anyone that took classes with duane, they'll tell u that duane absolutely LOVES his students. He is the most humble person, and so far from egocentric its unreal. I am one of his students, and I can definitely speak from experience. Also he would NEVER, EVER call us ignorant, (ask anyone of his students), and nor does his behavior show that he thinks that we are ignorant. that comment wasn't even made about us. we are his students and we understanding it clearly..... its u guys, who "have been thinking" of taking classes with him forever and haven't taken them yet, are the once that are taking offense to what he said, which wasn't even about you it seems to me in his quote "ignorant keep him in business" he is referring to instructors and you guys (who are NOT even his students) get all upset, saying i would take classes with him, but now that he calls us ignorant, blah blah blah.... stop taking things so personally, and really understand what he is talking about. The fact is, if u want top of the line, good quality knowledge, duane is the one to provide it, and one little comment which wasn't even directed towards you, should not prevent you from getting that education for yourself. Also, why is everyone stuck on that particular topic???? Wasn't this about musicality??? And if u have some serious questions, and want to have an adult conversation, just call him.... he is approachable. I think people are stuck on this topic is because of jelousy. He IS the best, and for some people with high egos its difficult to accept, that's why they are looking for ways to talk bad about duane, but again for anyone that personally knows him and for anyone that has the student - mentor relationship with duane, know him as a completely difirent individual .... and he is AWESOME!!! As a student I have tons of questions for him, and sometimes i feel that i might be bothering him with questions, but in fact, he loves them, he loves us showing to him that we are craving for knowledge and education, and he is THE BEST PERSON IN MICHIGAN BY FAR to be able to provide that education.
Don’t Start None, Won’t Be None!!!
CJMiller.1972, I enjoyed reading your post. And I agree with you that music and dance are universal languages that bring us so much joy. So, why can’t we all just put our differences aside and appreciate all of those beautiful things. Everybody has their own tastes, there is no denying it. But isn’t variety a ‘spice of life’? We are truly lucky to have a lot of talented dancers/instructors here in Michigan, and nobody is being forced to attend one school over another. It is a matter of choice.
I understand that everybody is just expressing their opinions here, but one of the reasons the arts are so special is because they are here to unite, not separate. Why are we arguing, hating, stressing? It would benefit everyone if we could just agree to disagree. Can’t we just continue to dance and be merry (whatever the level or the style might be).
Now, let me address one of the anonymous posts that said the following:
“Yes maybe he does look down on us all at Sangria from his perfect dancing-god pedestal and laugh at all the foolish ignorant peons who have zero rythym... but one of the golden rules is "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all' and I think both his reputation and his bank account would do well to remember that.”
Dear anonymous, I happen to be one of the folks that do know duane (for quite some time now), and let me assure you – he DOES NOT look down at anyone. He LOVES people, and he doesn’t usually reply to posts of this nature. This time around something must have really struck the nerve (if it was indeed him who posted it). He also does not disrespect or put down his students. He EDUCATES them. And they learn from him because they choose to. He is outstanding at what he does. His goal is to spread the love of music and dance to those who are interested in learning. Again, it is always a matter of choice. So, the individuals that do attend his studio chose to do so.
I understand where you are coming from (those of you that read the post and felt offended by it). But let’s be real, we all have bad moments, and words sometimes do seem a bit harsh. However, I think that actions always speak louder than words. For those of you that don’t know duane yet, don’t be so quick to jump to conclusions. He is a good person, with a great heart. Yes, we all understand that Energetic Soul Studios is his business, and that is how he earns money, but that doesn’t necessarily make him a bad guy. He is a generous individual. And I have experienced his generosity first hand (and that is precisely why I’m writing this post). A few years ago I have gotten very sick (practically home bound for a while), and as much as I love to dance, I had to ‘abandon’ the world of dance for a while due to health issues. Once I started feeling a little bit better, duane extended an invitation for me to attend any and every of the classes at the studio – FREE OF CHARGE. And that is precisely what I meant by saying that actions speak louder than words. (you are a special friend D, I love you dearly and will never forget your kindness).
Have a great day everyone!!! And maybe, just maybe you can find it in your hearts to forgive each other. We are all human, and we all make mistakes, but we can choose to get along and respect each other. Enough said...
Sigh
I am responding to the above comment, excerpt below:
"Dear anonymous, I happen to be one of the folks that do know duane (for quite some time now), and let me assure you – he DOES NOT look down at anyone. He LOVES people, and he doesn’t usually reply to posts of this nature. This time around something must have really struck the nerve (if it was indeed him who posted it). He also does not disrespect or put down his students. He EDUCATES them. And they learn from him because they choose to. He is outstanding at what he does. His goal is to spread the love of music and dance to those who are interested in learning. Again, it is always a matter of choice. So, the individuals that do attend his studio chose to do so."
Ok, maybe he's the kindest most caring and cuddly teddy bear in the world and we should nominate him for sainthood. But if you read his post it is completely condescending and in no way shape or form does it indicate his 'love' for people or 'respect' for people for that matter. I don't think the 'Timba sucks' post or any other post was inflammatory to the point of evoking that kind of rude response from Duane, so I'm not sure what you think it is that 'struck the nerve'. As you can see from all the comments from people who don't know him as you do, he completely turned them off and understandably so. All I was saying is that if you want people to give you a chance, making comments like that is unlikely to do so, so he shouldn't have said anything at all regardless of what his thoughts were, or at least said things in a nicer manner. Now unfortunately, it seems that a lot of people will never get to know the kind caring Duane that you know. When you are a public figure and a business owner, you have to more careful than the average joe about what you say and how you say it. It's not fair but that's life.
I’m the “Timba Sucks” guy…
I’m the “Timba Sucks” guy…
First of all, I never said Duane was a bad teacher. He is indeed a very good teacher and his studio is a great place to learn. In an earlier post someone made the assertion that music/style of dance you were exposed to first is the one you tend to prefer best and stick with. What I was trying to highlight that was not true. So my story was just to be a case in point. I learned Cuban style first, then found it was just not for me (ok, ok, maybe “hated” was too strong a word :)
After re-reading my comment I still don’t see who it could have been taken as an attack on Duane or why he would feel it as such. So his response is a bit perplexing. Then again, he could have been responding only to the musicality discussion since that is what is response seemed to focus on.
Let me be the first to apologize. I am sorry to cause such a stir with my poor choice of words (and musical preference :)
THIS IS DEEP
I’m not posting this to judge anyone about anything or to challenge anyone about how much they know or don’t know about Salsa. Me coming from a family of musicians and growing up and becoming a musician, you learn to appreciate all types of music.
Salsa is very unique because it takes more than one ingredient to make Salsa. Salsa before it was named salsa was actually named Ketchup or even referred to as Sauce because of the many different elements that were put together to create this sound. Salsa originated in New York and the name was given by none other than Richie Ray y Bobby Cruz. In a live interview when they were asked “what is the name of that music you are playing he responded “WELL IT’S LIKE MAKING A SAUCE YOU PUT THIS AND THAT TOGETHER AND WHAT YOU GET IS SALSA”. Tito Puente had a very hard time with this because when he was asked what he thought of the name he said SALSA IS SOMETHING YOU EAT, SOMETHING YOU PUT ON FOOD YOU CAN’T PLAY SALSA YOU PLAY MAMBO.
Though Cuba is the father of the standard rhythm in Salsa, New York was the birth place of this music we all come to love. I have in my possession a 4 disk DVD about the history of salsa and it is amazing how Cuban Salsa, Colombian Salsa, New York Salsa and Puerto Rican Salsa is so different but yet the same in curtain aspects of the music. I would gladly burn anyone a copy if they are interested in learning the different styles in the music and also the different ways they dance to it.
SALSA WAS INVENTED AROUND IMPROVISATIONS, MUSICLY, VOCALY AND EVEN IN DANCE. SO IN REALITY THERE IS NO WRONG WAY TO DANCE SALSA THE IMPORTANT THING IS TO ENJOY IT AND DANCE HOWEVER AND WHENEVER YOU CAN.
It is good to understand were the music came from and the history behind it. In my opinion SALSA WILL ALWAYS BE SALSA. The one thing we had to compete with rock and roll in the early 50’s, 60’s and 70’s and it is an honor to see all the different cultures salsa has brought together over the years. We don’t preach hate just love, strength and unity.
The only history that really is important when it comes to salsa is THAT SALSA IS ABOUT SHARING, CARING, LOVING, HEALLING AND REJOICING TOGETHER. NOT AS ONE BUT AS A WHOLE. LIVING IN HARMONY NO MATTER WHO, WHAT OR WHERE YOU ARE. ALL THIS TOGHTER WITH A LITTLE DANCE MAKES FOR THE GREATEST SALSA EVER.
PS: SORRY FOR THE BOOK
Great message!
Great message! Also, What is the name of this DVD set? I would like to find a copy.
I can burn them for you
I can have you copies and give them to you at Sangrias on Sunday if you like. here are the names I can probably find out who made them because it looks like it was transfered from a vhs, it's kind of old but it's good and in english. O dang I just found number five I didn't even know I had five.
1.Colombia : Tropical Salsa,
2. Cuba: Rum, Rhythm and Spice
3. Puerto Rico: Hot Salsa
4.New York: The Original Mambo Kings
5. Venezuela: Visa for the Barrio
hi
I would be interested in copying those DVDs also, if possible. my name is Joana.I don't really know who ye are, but i hope i can find out. :)
me too!
That sounds like a great set of dvd's. I'd love a set also. My name is Jessica and I don't know who you are either, but I'd still love a set. If you could e-mail me, I'd like to set up a way to get a set. jlgilles@umd.umich.edu. Always looking to learn more. Thanks!
I AM Annonymous # 17.3
Can I also have a copy of the DVD? I will be at sangria Sunday night, look for the girl with the big mouth. haha
O' and just to reply in the blog, I have been dancing for 26 years, and I AM THE BEST... at doing all forms of the chicken dance... so if any of you like to challenge me, come sunday!
BTW, on a serious note, you all suck!!!!! Buajajaja
On a more serious note: .... This is not really me writing this message....
Sincerely,
Anonymous 17.3
!!Sorry It Took So Long To Reply!!
Ok, I will try and have you guy’s copies this Sunday at Sangrias. I’m not sure if I can have them all done but I will try my best.
DVDS
I have the copies for those who replied, just come see me Sunday at Sangrias. I perform there with Tumbao Salsa. I am the bongo player my name is Bobby. I only made copies for the people on my list so if your not on the list and want copies just let me know and I'll try and have some for next week. My list is Jamin, Joana, Jessica, and Salsa Colombia or bka Anonymous #17.3. Hope you guy's enjoy them and learn from them as much as I did.