When bad is good...
Posted November 26th, 2007 by Geo-
So you think you can dance?
in
I'm gonna dust this one off from the archive of crazy salsa articles and put a spotlight on the MetroTimes. Just as there are bad salsa movies, there are bad salsa articles. When this first came out, I was a little ticked and a lot in disbelief; but now with the passage of time, I'll just appreciate it as camp. You have to look down to the bottom for "Harem scarem" and no one will blame you for spending a little extra time gazing at the pics from Tonic or the slave at Eagle; apparently rock hard abs make it more difficult to attach the clothespins.
Read the Night Tripper on MetroTimes... (PG 17 Warning...)
Read the Night Tripper on MetroTimes... (PG 17 Warning...)
So you think you can dance?
There are plenty to choose from, but here are some of my favorite lines:
- There's a trans in the mix, arm-in-arm with a straight teacher-librarian fellow.
- ...real gentlemen offer their partners a towel after a dance.
- Women who could be fifth-grade lunch-ladies...
Yes its funny now, but at the time I was pretty unhappy with what I felt was a blown opportunity by the Metro Times to highlight the Detroit salsa scene and talk about the great atmosphere at the Harem in a widely read publication. Yes, they said nice things, but overall it looked like a freak show.
If you have a favorite line, an article that you think is even funnier, or maybe you love this article and think its right on -- let us know! Maybe John Waters will make a salsa movie and we can rent out the IMAX.
If you have a favorite line, an article that you think is even funnier, or maybe you love this article and think its right on -- let us know! Maybe John Waters will make a salsa movie and we can rent out the IMAX.
Too funny
I couldn't get past the clothespins remark! I'm cracking up. But, I think you know how I feel about this one already - to the naked, non-involved eye, it's fascinating and enticing. I for one would rather dance in a room full of men and women who look like lunch ladies if they were having a good time than hot young men who only want one thing. Once you are in it and have met these people, you understand why the article seems campy, but until then, as it was for me, it's a great piece to lower the guard of those of us who might be scared to dive in.
Spry, dipping physicists and all ... ;-)
Jess
Too Bad.....
Too bad you didn't cut out the trash before posting. Having to weed through the junk took away from the Harem Scarem piece. One of the things I like about YASALSA web is that it is tasteful. You blew it this time. This was not along that line. Clean it up & I'll return to the website.
Did you even read the article?
What the heck are you talking about? First of all, the original poster did not write anything that was distasteful. Secondly, the MetroTimes article was not solely about the Harem. It is an article about the Detroit nightlife which just happened to have a bit about the Harem in it. If you have a problem with the "trash" in the MetroTimes article then take it up with them. YA has nothing to do with that.
Yes, I read the article.
That is a matter of opinion about the poster writing something distasteful. They eluded to browsing the pictures, some of which were inapropriate. The picture posted on the home page didn't even go with the salsa piece. Why not post the picture of Rich instead? The article in its entirety (Tonic, etc.) had ineuendos throughout. And I don't find S & M poses funny. As for the salsa article...I found it interesting.
YA posting the article from the Metro Times may send the message eluding they support that kind of thing. Although the Metro Times has some articles worth reading, much of the publication contains ads & material that may not be appropriate. Perhaps, I'm mistaken in assuming YA is supposed to be family oriented.
inapropriate is the point.
He was pointing out how bad the article was (freaky pictures included) and how it probably did very little to help the growth of the salsa scene in Detroit. It probably did more to make our salsa scene look more like a freak show then anything else. The picture of the S&M guy illustrates that and that is the point. George also touched on the old saying, "There is no such thing as bad press". So while the article painted a pretty twisted picture of the Detroit salsero, at the very least some people who didn't know a salsa nightclub existed know it now...
If your only beef with the article is that you feel it is inappropriate for children's reading, all I can say is that it probably is. But no where does it state that YA Salsa's goal was to create family oriented environments. Check out this page to learn what YA Salsa is about: www.yasalsa.com/aboutus
BTW, my name is Jamin. What is yours?
Point taken
Yes bad press does have a way of promoting something good.
I was thinking more of curious teensand preteens than of children. I really don't want to filter or sensor them from what I have grown to appreciate as an excellent website in YASALSA. Covering their eyes and bleeping the words doesn't work!
My name? You know what curiosity did to the cat, don't you? I could just say, "Anonymous" and leave it at that. However, that wouldn't be right. The name is Ruthie
POVs
I hope what YA as a "community" website will be is "relevant" to the salsa community in Detroit. The article I was pointing out is relevant and the photos and quotes are part of that article. We are trying to be open and allow people to express their POV about the scene here which will always involve some aspect of disagreement.
What if we never wrote anything about the article? To some it might appear that we basically agree with it or don't disagree with it. At the time, I wrote a letter to the editor for Metro Times (MT) explaining my concerns about the article. I discussed it with a number of people back then and now somewhat regret not having approved its printing. Were there a salsa article in MT every week, I would not have cared.
One of my key points and disappointments with the MT was that they in essence grouped salsa at the Harem with other clubs that are completely different and attract a very different audience and took what I considered a very odd tack with the writing: which was not really at all expected when the reporter showed up to do the story.
I personally don't have an issue with the overall MT article for the first three clubs, or the lifestyles of the people in the article and I don't see it as offensive. In fact for MT its pretty run of the mill. MT is trying to be relevant to the larger night club going audience and those clubs are part of that just as is the Harem. But, the combination on one page and with many odd and inaccurate statements was rediculous. It completely misportrayed the salsa scene and that is what I intended to show.
Posting a picture of Rich (who's picture of course I would love to post) would really not have made much sense in the context of what I was saying any more than "airbrushing" the picture from the Eagle. I really can't help it if people might not even read the first 2 sentences of what I wrote... I used bold type.... The MT article is not really offensive -- just kind of silly and absurd.
I'm certainly not trying to offend or intending this to become a 1st amendment battleground. I half expect that someone into Tonic or S&M or the writer of the article could be mad that I joked about something important to them. People have the right to criticize our actions or editorial choices which is why we have our names on the articles, and allow community comments and the ratings on most every article.
The first comment from Jess really kind of disagreed with both my insider view of the MT article and the offended POV. She thought it was a fun article that made salsa seem more accessible. These are all interesting viewpoints and that is part of the learning curve.
Thanks for your feedback,
Geo-
To each his own
Glad to hear you wrote them. Maybe in the future you'd consider referencing the article with the rating warning rather than displaying the one picture on the home page. Is a compromise possible? The different points of view have been thought provoking. Now that is what I call blogging!
Ruthie
We'll work on it :)
I doubt this type of topic will come up in the near future so it will be hard to tell if we've improved... But certainly we will do our best to keep some semblance of the community standard as the point is to discuss -- not shock. Believe it or not I really did consider these options but It was very hard to come up with a sensible article that didn't at the same time look self censored or incomplete. Regardless. Point taken.
Geo-
the soap box of a Radical Militant Librarian
I was at a family friendly event over the summer - one of Detroit's Fourth Friday's that was all about dance, salsa, and latin music. Much of it got rained out, but I was there to see a performance by some of Troy Dance Studio's professionals. The girls danced in a costume that was basically a bra, with shreds of fabric resembling a skirt after a bear attack, and under it - at thong. There were children in the audience.
That's salsa. It can get pretty sexy at times, even in a casual club. Even at the YA social some people are gonna put on hot pants, a short skirt, a crop top, or thigh highs or what ever, which isn't all that much more cloth than in the slave photo.
The picture of the S&M slave is pretty small, and I wouldn't have even looked at it twice if not for this hubub.
As for what someone underage might come across on the internet - if someone is too young to be reading this material then their parent, gardian, or responsible adult ought to be monitering what they are doing on the internet and there are tons of ways of doing that with out looking over their shoulder - contact a teacher, a guidance councilor, a librarian etc for ideas.
The creators of content - web, books, art etc - can not be censoring themselves because of what might offend certain individuals. It is up to those individuals to be responsible for what they read or choose not too. Nobody made anyone read the MT article, nor was anyone forced to examine the offending photo.
Heather
What if ?
What if it was discovered inadvertantly when the parent wanted to show the teen one of the salsa videos? An apology was in order to the teen.
Protect your children!!
At this point I think it is safe to say that this website is unsafe for children. Should they come across this image they would be COMPELLED to come home wearing leather undies with clothes pins attached to their bodies. Ban your children from this site and from inappropriate clothes pin use!
I would also suggest blocking all television channels from your home as they will most certainly have a negative influence on your child's behavior toward sex, drugs, violence, and provocative clothing options.
May I also suggest home schooling your children to reduce the risk of exposure to these undesirable elements in the public or private school systems. It is a jungle out there, better to keep them safe and at home.
Perhaps you should consider moving them into another country whose governments help parents protect their children's impressionable minds by enforcing a strict moral code. Some countries to consider are China, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, North Korea, and my personal favorite, India! Those Bollywood movies exemplify clean entertainment, and they are hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRmqZRPgK1w
apology?
I'd say the apology was owed by the parent to the teen (if said teen were actually offended) for not previewing the material first, since we presume the parent gave the child permission to view the content of this site. Certainly that's not the responsibility of YA or any such organization that produces information for public consumption. If you as a parent are so concerned that your child might view materials here that you may or may not find appropriate, why would you hit the play button before reviewing it yourself?
Apology 2
Apology from parent to teen was what I meant, not from the website. So Sorry. Seems there are a lot of assumptions as to what did or did not happen. That is a thing about Blogs.
Ruthie
No appologies neeeded!
I hope that everyone takes our discussions and the intent of the site in the intended spirit. I think its great that we have discussions on this stuff and can do it openly so that we can get different perspectives. I'm personally glad that you and everyone else took the time and interest in talking about this. Words are really hard to interpret completely. So we all need to watch our assumptions and keep in mind that this site is intended to improve our bonds.
Geo-
No apology
My sentiments are likewise. It is so easy to assume that this or that is meant by how we process what we read. I found the blog & comments thought provoking. Seeing the different threads interwoven was great.
Ruthie
discussion
At that point then you have a discussion with your child or teen or preteen at an age appropriate level - if it is a child you tell them it's a very strange costume and you're not sure why anyone would want to wear such a thing and laugh. No mention of S&M at all.
I see it similar to television - can a parent watch every show before they're kid does to make sure it's appropriate, no. But you can watch with your kid and turn it off when it's inappropriate and then discuss why.
exactly
It's a teachable moment.